Chicks Despise Niceguys

An important truth, illustrated in a letter to Ask Polly and commented upon by Roissy. Women are revolted by Niceguys.


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32 Responses to Chicks Despise Niceguys

  1. Paladin Justice says:

    Ok, I’ll take the risk and be lead off batter. Women say they want a nice guy, at least some of them say that. But in talking to quite a few female students during the course of my university employment, I had them admitting that nice guys are “boring,” and that although they can’t explain why, they are attracted to “bad boys.” The words in quotes are the actual words used by a couple of different hot babes in their early 20s. The question is how big an ***hole does a guy have to be to pass the bad boy test. In the story, guy #1 required a restraining order and was shown the door. Guy #2, the nice guy, seems to be stuck in the mode of bending over backward to please his lady friend. OR, could he have lost interest in her and be playing the nice guy to cause her to dump him. I’ve done that one before. You want to get rid of a woman, just start saying, “Whatever you want, dear.”

    I once had a 24-year old woman say that I was 51 percent manhood, 49 percent sensitivity, which she thought was just right. She was from the Mexican barrio and this was before I became more racially aware. I remember one night in the car where I unloaded on her loudly and made her cry by threatening to dump her drunken *** by the side of the road, if she ever acted stupid again. With lines delivered in an angry voice like, “Miriam doesn’t want to be my girlfriend and I’m going to give her what she wants,” threatening her in the third person worked miracles. None of this was planned. It happend spontaneously and it was real. I’m mild mannered but I was fed up because she was acting like a drunken slob. I was going to dump until she begged me for hours not to do it.

    What’s difficult is how to communicate to a woman on first meeting that you are not going to be a pushover. To make her understand that nice guy and bad guy can inhabit the same person. 99 percent of the time, I’m a nice guy. I love to be a nice guy. But sometimes if you love you have to be tough about it.

    • mindweapon says:

      I’m naturally a niceguy too. It’s something that has to be purposefully repressed, if you are.

    • ben tillman says:

      Ok, I’ll take the risk and be lead off batter. Women say they want a nice guy, at least some of them say that.

      Right, a lot of them say that because that’s not what they choose. They look at the man they’re actually dating and say, “I wish he weren’t such a jerk.” But that seldom prompts them to change the type of man they date.

    • Mr. Rational says:

      Could there be a legal solution to this?  Make divorce laws favor men again.  If all a man has to do to get his woman back in line is tell her “You cut the crap or I’ll use it as grounds for divorce, and the kids can visit your box under the bridge” it would really put the tingles back.

  2. Ryu says:

    Good stuff. PU is just as necessary as WN today.

  3. Mr. Grey: I could hold you to some impossibly high ideal like Angel Clare, or I could debase you completely, like Alec d’Urberville.

    Anastasia: Well if there’s only two options, I take the debasement.

    When you put a woman on a pedestal, you are saying that she is better than you, so why would she want you? But when you dominate her, you are saying that you are stronger than her, so you deserve her. She wins by having you.

    I asked a woman recently, if she had the option to share a high quality man with another woman, or have a low quality man exclusively to herself, her first response was, “well, what am I winning by having a low quality man all to myself?”

    What is glorious to a man is a shame to a woman; what is debasement to a man is an honor to a woman.

    Disclaimer: this is only true for normal, feminine women, not feminists who reject femininity and aspire to masculinity. Feminists hate femininity and are jealous of men for being more masculine than them.

  4. clytemnestra57 says:

    Paladin Justice et al, I would like to weigh in as a woman who felt the lure of the bad boys myself and it was years before I figured out that this attraction has been a media phenomena directed at susceptible young women as much as the current miscegenation media.

    It wasn’t until I went and saw Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings with my brother that I was so enlightened. My brother is an avid Tolkien fan and even though he felt that the trilogy, for the most part, was a largely faithful adaption to Tolkien, he was surprised by the skyrocketing popularity of Sean Bean who played Boromir. Indeed, he was surprised by the popularity of Boromir, himself. He said that Tolkien saw Aragorn as the hero and Boromir as a villain who was only redeemed when he died.

    I myself found Boromir much more sympathetic and heroic than Aragorn feeling that he and his family was doing all the heavy lifting to defend Aragorn’s birthright from the Orcs than what I thought of as the more two-dimensional Aragorn who was content to be a Ranger and romance the Elfen Princess. The idea that Boromir should be happy to hand the reins back over to Aragorn was a bit ludicrous to me. We had a discussion over this and we both realized that in Tolkien’s era, the concept of an Antihero did not exist!

    Look at the Counter Culture Hero of the sixties and seventies. The Western hero paradigm mutated from John Wayne or Gary Cooper to Clint Eastwood. Society became increasingly depicted as hypocritical and corrupt and the hero was no longer one that risked life and limb to uphold civilization, but broke the rules to bring it down. The resulting lure of the “bad” boy will remain a puzzler to men who put this down to a revulsion to so-called “beta males” by young women as some sort of abuse-sucking troll mechanism within the women themselves. Even some women will buy into this stupid meme and become abuse-sucking trolls.

    Remember that only in fairytales does a prince marry a peasant. The prince is affianced to a princess so that they become King and Queen. I am by no means suggesting that gender roles could not or should not be observed, but we need to observe mutual respect and courtesy for our separate spheres of influence. White men and women should model their unions after that of King Ferdinand of Aragon and Queen Isabela of Castile, because their enemies are our enemies.

    The problem with this phenomena and the resulting blowback from “gaming” sites like Heartiste is that it overlooks the fundamental but fascinating dichotomy of MEN, themselves. White men, in particular. Only psychopaths or sociopaths are ALL ALPHA ALL THE TIME. Only neurotic weaklings are ALL BETA ALL THE TIME. White men were gifted by God with what I call a WEREWOLF dichotomy. It is designed to take care of whatever business that needs to be taken care of. In peace time, men are like the werewolf during a waning moon. They are fathers, brothers, husbands, providers, farmers, factory workers, bankers, etc. ad infinitum. In war time, men become like a werewolf at the waxing of the full moon. They morph into ruthless, relentless warriors who are killing machines who inspire sheer terror in whatever population they conquer. When it is done, they go back to their mundane “beta” lives.

    Any man (or woman) who is falling into this alpha or beta male trap is doing themselves and our culture an immeasurable disservice. It sets women off on a vicious cycle of going from one abusive male to another. It must be exhausting for a man to have to put and keep himself into a mode that was only designed to deal with LIFE AND DEATH CRISES. Sorry, folks, but a woman’s bad hair day or a bratty kid or any other mundane, day-to-day bullshit should NOT necessitate alpha mode from a man! It’s time for everybody to keep that fantasy to bedroom hijinks where it belongs and behave like functional adults in the living room. Men, don’t compromise your standards of basic civility for some silly twit and Women stop mistaking kindness for weakness or stop wondering why men just say “fuck it” and find Asians for brides.

    • mindweapon says:


      If I had access to Roissy as a teenager, or at least the Roissy insights, my life would have been a LOT better. I was a beta boy most of the time, but a couple of times I inadvertently reverted to Jerkboy, and when I did, the female I was associating with fell head over heels for me, adn the harder I tried to get rid of her, the more she chased me. And when I said, “I hate myself for doing this to you. It’s not the real me, I don’t know why I do it, I’m sorry,” the girl was like, “oh, you’re such a noble soul.” and any protestations to the contrary were taken as further proof.

      • clytemnestra57 says:


        I have my own theories, but answer my question. When you accidentally discovered that the girl liked Jerkboy far more than “beta boy,” why didn’t you just put “beta boy” away and allow Jerkboy to come out and play permanently? What was it about finding out her preference for Jerkboy that made you so instinctively and reflexively try so hard to get rid of her? After all Jerkboy got you the girl and isn’t that the whole point of with sites like Roissy?

      • A.Ralston says:


        I like your werewolf analogy.

        I am a mere novice in the tactical aspects of game, but its underlying tenets, based on genetics and evolutionary psychology, are IMHO critically important to understand, and I believe women as well as men can profit by reading the material. One can take what he or she needs and leave the rest.

        Chateau Heartiste’s philosphical stance is nunanced, and reading between the lines is sometimes necessary. To the intelligent, yet hapless beta males, he dilgently proffers game advice, while simultaneously focusing many of his articles on WN issues such as the political vilification, economic marginalization, and sexual exile of said beta males, which if left unchecked will lead inexorably to the demise of Western civilization. He acknowledges it is, after all, the steady loyal beta males who traditionally are the producers, the providers, and the defenders of a healthy society – the bulwark of Western civilization. Angry men going their own way does not bode well for White men or women.

        Another bogger and author, Athol Kay, addresses game in the context of marriage and explores the proper allocation between alpha and beta behaviors. The primary rule, of course, is that the husband is the captain and the wife is the first officer. Occasionally his wife chimes in with her perspective.

        My 2 bits.

  5. The first anti-hero was the Serpent, the one that Eve chose over God. The first beta male was Adam, who followed his woman’s lead, instead of the reverse.

    Every time a woman gives advice on how to get/treat a woman, my only thought is: unless you’re a lesbian, you have *zero* experience with women, so how would you know?

    • Maureen Martin, Aryan Street says:

      What a great observation HR! (The Adam and Eve paragraph)

      My only comment is, I don’t like bad boys, I like strong men. There IS a difference.

      • OhNoHeDi-in't says:

        Reversing ‘equality’ and ‘rights’ would solve this problem far more decisively than any other measure. Start with the best solution- then work your way down if you must. Let this idea burrow into your heads. Think about it. Let it lose its edge. It’s been done before and it will be again.

    • crunchie says:

      A female cousin of mine gave me advice on women. I said “you know as much of womanizing as a duck knows of shooting”

    • clytemnestra57 says:

      HR, I am not advising men how to get/treat women.

      I am talking from the viewpoint of a woman who accompanied a grieving father to the funeral of a little boy who died at the hands of his stepfather, because his abuse-sucking troll of a mother was too submissive to protect him. The high point (sarcasm button off) was holding this very macho man in my arms as he cried like a baby after we buried a four year old.

      I know of another man who hooked up with a woman who came off of an abusive relationship and made the mistake of having children with her. She later got “bored” and absconded with his children to another abusive asshole who then abused his children. He blew a fortune trying to relocate them, but she even arranged for a fraudulent adoption with this asshole. The kids survived but he himself died before they could find him again.

      What I take from the history of warfare is that “alpha” mode has been some kind of reserve in ordinary men to deal with extraordinary crises like war or invasion. Not personal relationships, because traditional masculine-dominant gender roles made it unnecessary at all. It was taken for granted that he’d lead, she’d follow. In view of how recent the feminist phenomena is, I don’t think most men – decent men, anyway, have the ability to sustain the kind of brutishness these abuse-sucking whores crave.

      It never ends well with any couple where a woman has pushed a decent man past his snapping point. If she eggs him on into assholery, he ultimately loses all respect for her and eventually dumps her for a woman he does not hold in contempt, because no one finds doormats attractive. The guy who lost his son divorced his wife, because he was tired of all the drama manufactured at being with a woman who was either at his feet or at his throat. His words, gentlemen.

      All I am saying is that any guy who finds merit in living out some sort of Roissy or “Shades of Grey” fantasy better be wary. Tread carefully with a woman who seems to like abusive treatment, because you are dealing with some serious dysfunction. Play the game, if you must, but I strongly advise you to establish a boundary with a woman that should not be crossed and if she eggs you into crossing it, then you should drop her like she’s hot before you make the mistake of procreating with her. Your children will thank you later on.

  6. I usually date the damaged bad boy, the alcoholic who needs rescuing, or the tortured artist.

    Those are the men she chooses to have sex with and even procreate with.

    He is sensitive, kind, attentive, and doting. He is so very patient and loving with my child. Because of these traits, I find myself feeling less attracted to him physically. He seems meek. It is truly something sick. I have a hard time looking at him on occasion, because every little quiver, every timid step, every noise he makes while eating makes my skin crawl. He follows me around and paws at me. He is far less experienced than I am in the bedroom, and yet I do not know how to let him know what I like, because he is not keeping up with me in that department.

    Those are the men who are her beta orbiters. But for sex, women prefer promiscuous men who have had lots of other women. Call it “stud honoring,” the opposite of “slut shaming.”

    It’s all there in black and white, boys. Remember, lots of women will lie to you (and themselves) because they want beta orbiters, they want men to cater to them, to be sweet and kind to them. They want a nice guy to help raise their children – the children they had by the bad boys, the abusive alcoholic jerks.

    Cuckolding is part of a woman’s natural mating strategy. Alpha fucks and beta bucks.

    Beta guys, step up your game, or be a cuckold. Listen to these older women – who already had their children, and now want beta men to protect and provide for their children and themselves – telling you they really want nice guys. Or listen to a guy that’s had far more than his share, telling you want they really want is to be hog tied and given a good hard spanking.

    Your choice.

    (Don’t worry, they won’t break. They are tougher than you might think. They push babies out of their vaginas, remember, which I have been told hurts quite a bit.)

  7. TabuLa Raza says:

    Meanwhile, the wej printing press rolls 24/7. . .

  8. Tolkein – a giant of White/Western literature – was, of course, an outlier. According to his private letters published posthumously, he was an outlier (like many great people) that liked to be dominated by his wife in bed. It takes all kinds. But the exceptions prove the rule. The take on him by other fantasy authors like Piers Anthony and David Eddings is right – his female characters – when they were relevant at all – were sexless stand-ins, hardly representative of real White flesh-and-blood women.

    WN women that post on blogs – as much as I love them – tend to be older women who already had their children – and many – MANY – are divorced from the “alpha” fathers of their children, now looking for substitute “protectors” and “providers” – who have pretty much nothing to say to up-and-coming young White men trying to navigate the post-feminist “sexual” and “marriage” “market” that White men find themselves in today, after feminism and “no fault” divorce.

    Feminism won – traditional marriage is basically illegal in modern America, but old ladies – well meaning, no doubt – just simply have no idea of the modern reality of Slutwalkers and all the rest. I don’t blame them – how could they know? But young White men simply cannot take their advice seriously. I have constant trepidation that MW will ban me from my favorite blog, but it is what it is. Post-menopause and post-child bearing women – especially those who are divorced from the fathers of their children – simply have NO good advice to give to young White men. They just don’t understand what is going on, like well meaning grandmothers, they grew up in an earlier time. And like most of the older generation, they were far, far more brainwashed by the media than the internet generation.

    Any White woman still in thrall to second wave feminism is simply clueless; just like the Libertopian nutjobs, or the Neo-Contard Zionists, or the Snivel Rights “anti-racist” conservatives. Instead of moving on from a dead ideology, they double down, just like the “anti-racist” Christians who strongly oppose gay” “marriage” but are fine with a “conservative” Negro marrying a White woman and having mulatto children, just as long as they are “capitalists” and “Constitutionalists.”

    White men mostly have to politely ignore second-wave feminists, flatter them when necessary, but otherwise treat them like a kindly senile grandmother that doesn’t understand these new-fangled internets. They have been left behind by history.

    As Steve Sailer said, we have the most clueless generation of grandmothers in history; their granddaughters are posting nude selfies and sex tapes on line, and these old ladies are talking about “equal relationships” and “career” women are moaning about “abusive men” while their grandchildren are doing fetish scenes.

    Humor them; but taking them seriously leads to the death of the White race. White women are below replacement level fertility and have been for at least two generations now.

    Harsh? Maybe – but I’m not going to apologize for telling the truth, bluntly.

    Meanwhile, the wej printing press rolls 24/7. . .

    Who the hell reads jewspapers anymore? WTF is a “printing press?” I guess old men are just as clueless as old women …

    • mindweapon says:

      As Steve Sailer said, we have the most clueless generation of grandmothers in history; their granddaughters are posting nude selfies and sex tapes on line, and these old ladies are talking about “equal relationships” and “career” women are moaning about “abusive men” while their grandchildren are doing fetish scenes.

      Sounds like the Quaker woman I spoke to the other day. She was the biggest pedestaler ever — she had this vision of these heroic, martyred, single mothers, abandoned by the evil men, and O-Pressed by the Patriarchy. She wasn’t really on the same planet as us, and everyone around knew it.

    • A.Ralston says:

      ” ‘Meanwhile, the wej printing press rolls 24/7. . .’

      Who the hell reads jewspapers anymore? WTF is a “printing press?” I guess old men are just as clueless as old women …”

      Maybe TabuLa Raza alludes to Ben Bernanke’s printing press.

  9. I think it’s the commenter “Ton” on SSM’s blog. He has a son who is in Special Forces which he describes as a “man among men” – no doubt – and a daughter recently married to another Special Forces man that he describes as his “treasured jewel.”

    Notice that his daughter is the “treasured jewel” of a Special Forces man – NOT – emphasis on this – NOT some dyke “wimminz” toting a gun around and shooting bad guys.

    Every white man with a daughter should ask himself if he wants his daughter humping some pack in Iraq shooting arabs- OR – being the “treasured jewel” of a man that is.

    Seems pretty damn simple to me. Racism without sexism is a dead end.

    Do you want grandchildren or not? 14 Words or not?

  10. PA says:

    Racism without sexism is a dead end

    That is a useful reminder. My battle since the founding days of Roissy’s blog has been the inverse of your adage, “sexism without racism is a dead end.” I’ve dumped my worst contempt for anti-racist MRAs, calling them out as half-faggots.

  11. PA says:

    A synthesis has been developing over the past five or so years, with disparate advocates on the dissident Right, or the “alt-Right,” to use the transitional name for our movement before we are simply called Right. This synthesis can be observed among the most intelligent established bloggers & commenters, as we’ve evolved since 2001 from our various “conservative” starting points into clear-eyed intellectual revolutionaries. Or principled dissidents.

    One of many such examples of our maturation is a comment by Vox Day: “I think helping them [Africans] is the right thing to do. The point is that long-term assistance is best provided by NOT permitting them to come in and destroy more advanced civilizations, but rather by giving them something to which they can aspire without giving them the ability to interfere with it internally or externally.”

    This common-sense statement would not have been articulated ten years ago; or if it would, it would have very few receptive listeners. Today though, it articulates our bedrock convictions, and — this is mind-boggling in terms of cultural shifts — represents the movement of moral center of gravity toward what normal people for the past three generations have reflexively called extremist.

    Much of this energy comes form Generation X, myself included. I think it’s significant. This generation stepped to adulthood in a “fifties” America, and got punched in the face by early 90s anti-White Kulturkampf just as we became young men.

  12. Hereward Saxon says:

    My reaction is different: I regret clicking on ‘Read More’ to reach the rest of that article, linking to such truly SATANIC advice as this: ‘Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.’

    Virtuous women exist, though very rare because Christian fathers are far too rare. But it is not impossible for this situation to change, one man at a time. I also reject the false ‘alpha-beta’ dichotomy.

  13. Craig says:

    The ‘alpha-beta’ dichotomy has been around for many centuries, probably recorded in the Arts. This is a poem written by a Nobel women in 1200AD. She is most probably a Cathar though.

    “I was plunged into deep distress

    I was plunged into deep distress / by a knight who wooed me,
    and I wish to confess for all time / how passionately I loved him;
    Now I feel myself betrayed, / for I did not tell him of my love.
    therefore I suffer great distress / in bed and when I am fully

    Would that my knight might one night / lie naked in my arms
    and find myself in ecstasy / with me as his pillow.
    For I am more in love with him / than Floris was with Blanchfleur.
    to him I give my heart and love, / my reason, eyes and life.

    Handsome friend, tender and good, / when will you be mine ?
    Oh, to spend with you but one night / to impart the kiss of love !
    Know that with passion I cherish / the hope of you in my husband’s
    as soon as you have sworn to me / that you will fulfil my every wish. ”

    My Ancestors were Franks and Visigoth, before they migrated to Scotland, looks like they had lots of fun…

    • Mosin Nagant says:

      My ancestry is also Frankish German on ONE side, supposedly given land to guard on the Franks’ eastern border (march) in exchange for good service at Tours — and they remained in place until some of them migrated to America.

  14. Hereward Saxon says:

    ‘the hope of you in my husband’s place’

    ‘Cathar’ is a broad term, but a Cathar properly so called should not have written that. I don’t discuss theology here.

  15. WNs are warming to Game/PUA. I like.

    I can only imagine the shock with which beta-boys swallow and digest these essential truths.

  16. What does murdering children have to do with “alpha” at all? Only second wave feminists purposefully conflate all masculine behaviors with violence and murder. To second wave feminists, yelling at a woman is violence, not having sex with a woman because you’re mad at her is “emotional abuse” and not calling after a one night stand is “rape.” If I read the stats correctly, physical domestic violence is initiated by men and woman equally.

    The story of the step father murdering a child is a great case for presumptive paternal custody of children after a divorce – something that second wave feminists fought tooth and nail and still do to this day. Children have better outcomes raised by a single father than a single mother, for just those reasons. If we’re going to discuss murdering children, perhaps it’s best we not get into the abortion swamp either, nor the prevalence of mothers murdering their own (born) children as well.

    Clearly, there’s a communication disconnect here, because “alpha” has nothing to do with violence, at all. Never has, and none of the gamers who talk about alpha and beta behaviors have ever said anything even close to that.

    Now, onto the sub shaming, typical second wave feminism, as I covered extensively in my “Sex Wars” and “BDSM Bullshit” articles. Are we going to start quoting Dworkin next? Second wave feminism is nothing but Marxism in a dress. Go ask Erin Pizzey.

    If John Wayne is the type of male role model we should be promoting, let’s put it in perspective.

    I’ll take a 50 Shades fantasy over some feminist career woman any day. Career women are already married to their “alpha dom” – the one that signs her paycheck – her boss. Gives “working woman” a whole new twist.

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